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Hilary Fitzgerald Campbell's avatar

I truly cannot imagine caring about my neighbors fucking. GET IT ON! What are we all alive for!? Recently I was in Vegas for my birthday and a woman knocked on my door at 5 pm to tell us to be quiet. She began with “I know you guys are having a lot of fun in there..” then asked for us to quit it. In Vegas. At 5 pm. What is the world coming to?

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Megan Lee's avatar

5pm?! Vegas?! Be quiet?! That woman booked the wrong place to get her zen on 😂

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Jeff G's avatar

Shhhh: What happens in Vegas…

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Anonymous's avatar

What would the conversation be if we were talking about, for example, smoking? What if your neighbor is smoking in the comfort of their own home but also filling your home with smoke? They are just enjoying the pleasure of a good cigar, let's say.

I think it's willful ignorance to say that what you do in your own home is allowed when you know it affects others. That you don't care speaks volumes about you. What if they work from home and are on a call with a client? What if their five-year-old niece is visiting? What if you're triggering a sexual abuse survivor? We're talking public indecency, corruption of minors. Your behavior is inappropriate and unkind. Take responsibility for your actions. Your neighbor isn't saying not to have sex. Your neighbor is asking you to stop carelessly, neglectfully, and then (once made aware) maliciously hurting them and their quality of life.

If you aren't willing to accommodate other people, then communal living is not for you. You should move out.

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malatela's avatar

Sex is a normal part of life. If you're so intolerant of the noise of people living their normal lives, you should be the one who moves out.

Cigarette smoke causes cancer. No one ever died from overhearing someone having sex.

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Anonymous's avatar

It's normal to get upset and defensive when you find out you're responsible for hurting people around you. It's a good impulse! But don't be fooled into blaming the victim. I agree sex is a normal part of life, but we also have to be responsible for the "agreement reality" of the culture in which we live, where we've agreed that sex has appropriate times and places and inappropriate times and places. Neutral noise like a blender would not be an issue. But this is not the same and I think conflating the two is a manipulative tactic. One can happily tolerate the neutral noise of life but sexual noises are inappropriate to inflict on your neighbor. I'm sure you'd feel similarly if you were in a situation where you didn't want other people's sexual noises intruding, like if you were holding the hand of your dying parent at home in hospice care. We should lead with compassion and empathy in order to better live together.

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Camille Sojit Pejcha's avatar

I’m loving the heated discussion here, but to play the devil, what is the appropriate time and place for sex if not inside one’s own home? It’s not that I was having sex late at night or early in the morning, nor that the volume level was exceptionally loud—keep in mind I bought a white noise machine, play music to mask sound, do my best to keep volume low etc, and as I said in the piece, I offered to buy her a drink and learn more about her experience so we could come to a fair compromise. That’s kind of what I’m getting at here: outside of these fringe circumstances (holding the hand of a dying parent, living near young children—which is definitely not the case here) how much can we expect our neighbors to adapt to our preferences? How much tolerance do we owe one another, and where do we draw the line on what’s acceptable in our own and others’ sex lives?

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Anonymous's avatar

My apologies if anything came across as heated. Of course having sex in your home is appropriate, that isn't the problem. The problem is making sexual noises that are occurring in your neighbor's living space, right? If they couldn't hear the sexual noises you are making, I'm guessing there wouldn't be an issue.

I hear you list out some things you've tried but if you're still making the noises and your neighbor is still hearing them, then I'm guessing it's still a problem. I'm not surprised if the neighbor doesn't want to get drinks and talk about why it bothers her. I don't know the case for her, if she's a sexual abuse survivor or, for another hypothetical scenario, a musician/podcaster trying to record. It sounds like you're quite sure there are no children hearing, that's good! Although I don't think children being around is a "fringe case" but rather just ordinary life.

I guess my confusion is, though, have you tried not making the noises? Honest question. Is it that you would like for other people to hear you, there's an exhibitionist quality to it? Maybe you can't enjoy sex unless there are strangers hearing you or potentially hearing you? If that is the case, I would just make sure that you live somewhere where all your neighbors are fine with it. It just seems inappropriate for your sexual noises to be occurring in their living spaces if they've told you you don't have their consent.

Nobody is asking you not to have sex. They're just asking you not to fill their homes with sexual noises.

I would say if possible, just keep in mind that the effect our behavior has on others isn't in our control. Only our behavior itself is in our control. Making the neighbor wrong for how they feel won't change it. The only thing you can change is you.

But again, I have to say it all sounds pretty low stakes. It's good of you to show such concern as to try the methods to mask the noise and to bring it here for feedback! I hope it can resolve for you soon and you can feel comfortable and safe when you're in your home, as can your neighbor.

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malatela's avatar

I'm extremely quiet when I have sex so to my knowledge I've never mildly annoyed anyone with it! So I'm not defensive.

However the reality is if you're the intolerant one, it's more utility maximising for you to move out. Let the people who don't care live in apartments, and the people who do live in places with no shared walls. It just makes sense, because places with shared walls will always have unavoidable noise from normal everyday life- not just sex.

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Anonymous's avatar

The neighbor can't control any of the noises or sounds coming into her home from somewhere external. But the person having sex can control the sounds coming out of their mouth.

I think the secondhand smoke example is apt, but I agree sexual noises probably aren't as harmful in general. But the general dynamic is the same. The person smoking is deciding for everyone whether the air they breathe is smoky. Likewise the person making sexual noises is deciding for everyone whether sexual noises are occurring in their living space.

I think it's unfair to describe the person experiencing the harm as "intolerant." That's like saying people breathing your secondhand smoke are intolerant.

As mentioned above, sexual noises are not neutral living sounds like, say, a blender. We must acknowledge that sex is inappropriate in some contexts in our shared community. Not taking responsibility for one's own sexual behavior and inflicting "secondhand" sex noises on others when they've communicated that it is harming them is in itself harassment.

When you look at harassment definitions, you will find that the one performing the behavior (in this case making sexual noises) doesn't get to decide whether or not it's harmful. It's the person experiencing the harm. Making them wrong for being harmed by your (general "you," not you personally) behavior is cruel and invalidating and shows an unwillingness to be responsible for one's own behavior and the effect it has on those around you.

The comment about moving out was not meant to be negative or critical but just a practical consideration. In the hypothetical circumstance where a person is unwilling to stop making sexual noises on a regular basis that inflict harm on their neighbors, that person may wish to move out so they can keep making the noises without inflicting harm. Otherwise, the right thing to do in my opinion is not to make the noises.

Bear in mind, too, that it's probably all pretty low stakes, but nevertheless I think clear cut.

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caitlín's avatar

sex noises aren’t harm. they might be uncomfortable or triggering to others, and when they are those people can ask for accommodations (asking neighbours to consider your kids’ bedtimes) or make choices for themselves (not even moving, but something really simple like the mentioned headphones). but we aren’t responsible for avoiding other peoples discomfort or triggers. we can’t live apologising for every step we take or every pleasureful moan we let out because we want to have a life. you sound kind of controlling.

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Sally May's avatar

@anonymous I’m curious why you assume she can ‘control’ the noise or is being ‘exhibitionist’? That’s the point isn’t it - those noises are literally the release of control. Maybe she can’t climax without making noise (very common). Should it be acceptable to her neighbour then?

And to suggest ‘communal’ living isn’t for the OP is plain wrong. Genuine communal living - eg communes - very much accept and understand that people are having sex all the time and that we can just get on and live our lives nonetheless!

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Susan Coyne's avatar

👏🏻 to that. Compassion and empathy. It’s funny because while I assume most of us hate Elon Musk, the total “I can do whatever the fck I want and if you have a problem with that, suck it! I’m so much more important and cooler than you!” approach to things is rife in the OP and in some of the comments. Being an a**hole takes many guises, don’t be sucked into thinking that just bc you’re a “free spirit” u aren’t act like an a**hole. (Asterisking bc I’m used to other social media shadow banning). Acting without compassion = acting without compassion, even if you think you’re being really edgy… or whatever is going on here.

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Camille Sojit Pejcha's avatar

I fear you missed the part where I bought a white noise machine, played music to mask the sound, apologized and offered to buy her drinks and hear about her experience, tried to keep volume levels low, etc. I led with the dispute because it's more entertaining, but the point of the piece isn't "I don't give a fuck about my neighbors," it's "How much can each person reasonably compromise? Are other people dealing with this, and how do we learn to live with each other? Why do we view sexuality as so fundamentally different from other aspects of life, and at what point does freedom of expression infringe on reasonable expectations of privacy? What IS the etiquette?"

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malatela's avatar

Sending your neighbours nasty notes and texts over something you can't help is not compassionate. It's mean and it's harassment.

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Opinionated's avatar

If you hear the noise, it’s now your problem. This is so inconsiderate

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Tom Van Valkenburgh's avatar

I can see why you wish to be anonymous. You analogies are a stretch and you’re sex negative. No one ever died from second hand sex. If your nabes are having sex and you can hear it, put on some music or noise canceling headphones, or take a walk. Or have a wank while eavesdropping.

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marta's avatar

I think trying to limit noise to be considerate of your neighbours is a decent thing to do, but if someone sent me their schedule to try and dictate when I can and can't do certain things in my own home I would get physically violent.

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Tara McGowan-Ross's avatar

I think that American sexual perversion and American Puritanism are two sides of the same cultural impulse. I’m Canadian, and even though our cultures are 99% identical, it’s one of the most serious experiences of culture shock I get when I cross the border. People seem a lot more obsessed with the notion of sex — I’m much more aware of being a woman and what that means in America than I am in Canada — but also more disgusted with it and interested in policing each other about it. I remember being a kid and hearing people talk about overhearing neighbours having sex — the conclusion all the adults came to was they’d much rather hear people having sex than hurting each other. I think we should all be a little more horrified by cruelty and violence and a little less by emotions and bodies and sex. Good for them, honestly.

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Tara McGowan-Ross's avatar

Anyway my apartment is in an addition in my building so the wall behind my bed is two feet of concrete which means I hear nothing… and assume no one hears me either. One of my favourite moments of a party was when one of my best friends called everyone out onto the balcony because we could see the neighbours having sex very clearly. It was such a happy, silly, not-titillating experience. “I’m happy they got back together,” my friend said. “He seemed sad.”

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Georgia Brennan-Scott's avatar

I think as with anything, there are degrees to what's acceptable. My housemate and I have upstairs neighbours who regularly get it on between 1 and 2am, with the noises resembling screams more than moans. It goes past being disruptive to sleep--it's borderline disturbing! I have no issue with other people having sex, or even loud sex, but I think some consideration is due. I think the same thing goes for playing music loudly, hoovering or hammering something into the wall. I do think your neighbour is being COMPLETELY unreasonable, and the idea that you would coordinate your sex life around her being at home is unthinkable.

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Trey S's avatar

I'm in NYC, and my partner and I fuck pretty loudly. Hell, we almost never close the curtains either. I want every drop of sunshine I can get in this city. If someone peers into our place and sees my cock n balls while I'm cooking a post-coitus bite for us, that's their problem. My partner is lazy about wearing clothes when it's just the two of us, so I'm sure plenty of people have seen her naked through the window too. We got all sorts of meat on display, whatever, this is the human experience. If it's scary move to Connecticut or something.

Personally, I don't mind the sounds of my neighbors fucking at all. It's definitely less irritating than a bored dog yapping for hours or an ambulance stuck in traffic. If anything it's kind of beautiful, I'm happy for them to unleash a bit.

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Valeria Maerz's avatar

Nice piece! I've been on both sides and generally i'm pro-having authentic sex which ofc entails making noises, but i'm also a survivor of sexual trauma, and i do get triggered by excessively loud sex sounds, so idk the solution. but! my current roommates & i keep each other posted and that helps :)

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Camille Sojit Pejcha's avatar

This is a very fair reason to request reasonable accommodations! I'm glad you have an open line of communication with you roommates—a little mutual consideration goes a long way :)

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Opinionated's avatar

It seems like you can’t take any accountability at all

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AAA's avatar
Mar 20Edited

My puritanical downstairs neighbor once made a comment after I told him I could hear laughter from his apartment (delightful, a sign of community!) and he rebutted that he could hear a lot more than that from my apartment (I was in 2 long term relationships) & I came to the realization half these people are just jealous they’re not getting any! A young couple just moved into his old unit below me, and I WISH I heard them having sex bc I can’t hear anything from them, not even laughter!

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Noah's avatar

They would have struggled in a one room hut in the middle ages.

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Jeff G's avatar

Please let us know how this works out. This is a fascinating urban dilemma.

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Abigail A Mlinar Burns's avatar

High-quality reportage 👏 I try to refrain from liking until I finish reading, but with this, I couldn't help myself. This was stellar from the get.

I've often worried I was the bad neighbor. In lockdown I know some saw, and heard, us. It’s a cost of living in a U-shaped Hackney tower block with low windows. And now the bricks in Brooklyn aren't nearly as dense as concrete 🤪 But I can't for the life of me imagine receiving the texts you've gotten. Your neighbor clearly needs a break to remember the point of life, so I'm relieved to hear she’ll be traveling 😪

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Brian Mcleish's avatar

Is the issue actually that the neighbour isn't getting any? When I lived in London 20-odd years ago, I used to hear my next door neighbour every weekend evening with his girlfriend and it pissed me off because I was single AF. Not that I would have had the temerity to complain about it mind you!

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Abigail A Mlinar Burns's avatar

Yes, I’m sure! What better time to realize/reckon with that than on a trip? Get out of your town to get out of your head to get into someone else’s bed, and remember connection and love are the point of this mad world.

And yea.. the temerity is more shocking than loud sex would ever be.

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Camille Sojit Pejcha's avatar

hahaha i'm honored!!

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Christina Catherine Martinez's avatar

UHHHMMM unless it’s disturbingly loud and/or every single day I think it’s kind of sweet and hot to hear my neighbors having sex. We live in a society!!!

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Ella in Chicago's avatar

I've been both. I've never minded that kind of noise whatsoever. I used to have a younger neighbor who would get it on LOUDLY with his girlfriend all the time. Not a single complaint from me. I'm also loud, tee-hee!

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Luce Screw's avatar

Such a brilliant context setting with the loudest fart decibel level 🤣

Some people pay for audio porn, anyone with loud sex neighbours has basically won a free subscription

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Matt Kagen's avatar

Made me laugh out loud in this coffee shop

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Camille Sojit Pejcha's avatar

not TOO loud, i hope

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Megan Lee's avatar

Thoroughly enjoyed this read!! If I was living in NYC I would say... get it fucking on. LOL. As someone who decidedly does not live in NYC and has a 9 year old daughter... I *would* be concerned if my neighbors were loudly fucking. Otherwise, live and enjoy life. ✌️

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